Eastern Soaring Talk
Eastern Soaring Talk
Home | Active Topics | Search | FAQ


Please register to post in these Forums
 All Forums
 ESL TALK
 Open discussion
 Proposed ESL Rules and Procedures
 Forum Locked
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2013 :  8:12:13 PM  Show Profile
Greetings ESL!!!

This thread is established in an effort to solicit comments and feedback regarding the proposed ESL Rules and Procedures upgrade. The ESL has established rules in place. However, about every 10 years they get a revisit and an upgrade. This year I have taken the liberty of not only revising the rules, but have also included a lot of background. When I was re-working the rules it became apparent that many things can, and probably should be, construed as recommendations as opposed to hard and fast requirements. Overall, one of the strengths of the ESL is its ability to continuously adapt and evolve our competitions. The updated rules are constructed to retain our flexibility. That adaptability is one of the things that makes the ESL great. In addition to the �official� rules, we have a lot of procedures that we generally perform. Another thing that makes the ESL great is the participation, camaraderie and enthusiasm of its members. You are all to be commended for making the ESL an excellent soaring adventure year after year. Taken all together, the proposed ESL Rules and Procedures provide interested pilots to see how we get things accomplished. Please post your comments to this thread and/or e-mail to me or the other ESL Officers. The plan is to gather feedback during the winter and 2014 competition season and vote on the rules proposal at the 2014 Annual ESL Business Meeting.

Results of e-mail exchanges with the current ESL Officers regarding the proposed ESL Rules and Procudres update. Current ESL Officers are: Luis Bustamante, Steve Lucke, Dave Beach, John Marien, Austin Sloan, Anker Berge-Sonne, and Josh Glaab.

1. The ESL encourages new clubs to participate and host ESL events. The ESL also greatly appreciates all the clubs that currently participate in the league and it is recognized that without good strong participation and support from the region�s clubs we would not have an ESL. (I think everyone agrees to this point.)

2. The ESL�s mission statement is to: "Enhance the sport of radio controlled (R/C) thermal soaring through the establishment and maintenance of reasonable standards for contest operations". While we are not hosting FAI or national-level events, ESL contests are usually much more than nominal club contests, for example, with a very high-level of competition and great camaraderie. (I think that everyone agrees with this point, at least to some extent.).

3. Many aspects of a contest need to be considered in support of #2. Items such as flight and landing tasks and launching equipment are some of those items. Other items that need to be considered is the size and layout of the field. Not all possible flying sites are suitable for ESL events. (I think most agree to this point.)

4. One aspect that can greatly affect a contest is a no fly zone (NFZ). NFZs are created in response to some requirement not to overfly a certain area. NFZs can be of many sizes and shapes. Some pilots really dislike NFZs others say they don�t really mind. It is recognized that all pilots have a tough time determining if/when they cross a NFZ boundary in flight and that inconsistent enforcement is a primary issue. In order to satisfy point #2 NFZs must:

a. Be clearly defined and communicated to the ESL Contest Coordinator when requesting an ESL sanction. It is the responsibility of the ESL Contest Coordinator to work with the rest of the ESL Officers and the hosting club to determine the adequacy of a contest location, including those with a NFZ (~1/2 agree to this)

b. Be clearly defined and communicated to the pilots before the contest (all agree to this)

c. Be uniformly enforced (all agree to this)

d. If items 4b and 4c are not performed, then the contest is considered to be less than adequate and does not meet #2. (all agree to this, right?)

e. NFZs are inherently different from other contest issues, such as limited launching direction, since those types of issues are consistently enforced (~1/2 agree to this).




Proposed ESL Rules and Procedures
Updated October, 2013


Introduction and Background
This document provides a description of the Eastern Soaring League (ESL) along with a description of the rules and unwritten procedures currently in use. The ESL was created in 1978 with an objective to "Enhance the sport of radio controlled (R/C) thermal soaring through the establishment and maintenance of reasonable standards for contest operations". Since 1978 the ESL has evolved, but still reflects its heritage.

In 1978, R/C soaring competitions were just starting to gain some momentum. Various sailplanes were becoming available and there was significant interest. R/C Soaring enthusiasts were investing time and resources to attend competitions and beginning to have a great time meeting and flying with pilots from a fairly large region (NY, NJ, CT, PA, MA, MD, VA). While some R/C Soaring events were well equipped, run, and attended, some events were having issues for various reasons. Pilots had little information to work with when traveling to a competition and sometimes were met with unpleasant surprises. One aspect of the ESL was to ensure a consistently good R/C soaring competition experience. Decisions regarding the format and rules for ESL contests are based on one simple philosophy: show up and fly!

To provide some perspective, in the mid-to-late 1970s, high-starts were still widely used. Although winches were starting to gain popularity at soaring sites sailplanes were primarily designed to be launched from high-starts. While winches were definitely different than high-starts in terms of launching power, there was also wide variability between different winch designs. Some winches were 12 volt, some were 6, some had thick drums, some thin. Some could be operated at either voltage depending on which foot petal button was intentionally, or unintentionally, stepped on. As a result, one significant issue facing competitors was what type of launching equipment would be available at the contest. This was particularly critical for new sailplanes being designed at that time. For example, high-end sailplanes, such as the Legion Air in 1978, were showing-up but they could not be competitively launched from a high-start in many wind conditions.

In addition to the launch equipment issue, there was also wide variability regarding what could be considered a desirable R/C Soaring competition format. Contest Directors (CDs) seemed compelled to experiment with flight tasks and landing tasks, sometimes just in an effort to stand out. Some of these experiments were beneficial and had lasting positive impacts, like Man On Man, some of them really did not stand the test of time. One example of a reviled soaring task that did not stand the test of time was called triathlon. The triathlon flight task would award more flight points for even-minute flights than odd minute flights. For example, a 6 minute flight time would earn a higher score than a 7 minute flight time in a 10 minute task. Pilots had to determine if they could get from one scoring peak to the next. The level of thinking and strategy involved with triathlon was a problem and many vehemently hated that contest format. Other examples of poor choices of flight tasks of well-intentioned yet highly-clueless CDs could include loops and other nonsense that has nothing to do with soaring.

Landing tasks were widely varied as well. Overall, the graduated spot landing has been the most popular and useful task over the years. However, some competition events would again experiment with various strange ideas such as bonus points for hitting the out-house, or landing on beach balls. These landing tasks may be Ok for a local club event, but are definitely not something many would find enjoyable or rewarding.

Combined with the uncertainties of launch equipment and flight and landing tasks, there were additional issues regarding the group running the competition. In many cases, a local group would acquire an AMA sanction, publish the event in the AMA Magazine with the intent of drawing outside participation, and hold a competition that would be based on monthly club events. In this scenario the contest organizers would not get to the field until 10am, have a 2 hour lunch break, and have a very limited amount of flying. While the contest organizers would acquire an AMA sanction with the intent of having a significant event, they were mostly interested in fun flying and may not understand the level of flying that would be expected of them from those who may travel to the event.

Overall, R/C soaring competitors were interested in attending many competitions each year at the inception of the ESL, but were challenged regarding which contests to invest their time and money to attend given the potentially large variability. The creators of the ESL wanted to establish a set of guidelines to ensure that ESL sanctioned events were consistently of very high quality and worth the expense of attending. Scores are calculated to determine pilots� overall performance for the season. End of Season Championship awards are awarded to the 10 pilots in Expert and Sportsflyer class of the Unlimited Division. Year-end awards for the DHLG and Electric Sailplane (ES) divisions are to be determined. The over-arching philosophy guiding decisions regarding ESL contests was to show-up and fly!

ESL Rules
On paper, ESL events do not appear significantly different than other AMA sanctioned events and are based on the �Competition Regulations for RC Soaring� and can be found at: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RCSoaring.pdf.

ESL competitions are required to have an AMA sanction and are two day separate events of at least 3 rounds each. There is no minimum number of pilots required for an ESL event. Requiring a minimum number of pilots to fly at a contest for the scores to count essentially penalizes those who showed-up and rewarded those who didn�t which is counter to the ESL philosophy of �show-up and fly�.
Currently, the ESL has two divisions: Unlimited and DHLG. There is development of an Electric Sailplane (ES) division for 2014. By focusing only on the Unlimited class for thermal-duration pilots can focus on those class of aircraft. This is considered to be easier than having the ESL scores be composed of specific Unlimited, 2-M, and RES contests combined which would require a series of aircraft.

The ESL season runs from April 1st through September and into early October. Thermal duration contests can be scheduled on consecutive weekends, however it is desirable to have an off weekend between events. Having ESL contests as two separate contests provides many benefits and facilitates participation. For example, some pilots may only be able to attend Saturday or Sunday. If ESL contests were one two-day event, many pilots would not attend at all if they had a scheduling conflict with Saturday or Sunday. Two separate contests also provides pilots with two chances earn ESL scores which also boosts interest and numbers of competitors. With two separate days, pilots can expect to fly competitively on both days no matter how bad one flight (or day) may have been on any single day. Pilots take the summation of their best 6 contest scores for the year-end ESL score. Pilots can fly in as many ESL contests as they like, again the emphasis is on showing up.

ESL rules require CDs to publish what the flight and landing tasks will be in advance. Publication of the flight and landing tasks, as well as other significant factors (such as no-fly zones) allows flyers the chance to potentially pass on a contest if they were calling for high-start looping triathlon with out-house landing tasks. Definition of a no-fly zone needs to be defined in advance and not altered in any significant manner during the contest, except for safety concerns. If a no-fly zone is in effect, it needs to be: 1) easily defined to the pilots flying, 2) enforceable by the CD, and 3) equally enforced for all pilots without exception.

The CD shall conduct a pilots� meeting and brief the competitors on the task for the day to include: 1) Duration of Round 1 and anticipated durations for subsequent rounds, 2) Landing tasks, 3) Field Boundaries, 4) Poppoffs, 5) Proper use of the winches, 6) Anticipated ending time of the contest, and 7) Any deviations from the AMA competition code (e.g: timers can provide the last 10 seconds of the countdown). Items 1 and 2 shall be constant for an entire round, but may be adjusted in between rounds. Items 3 through 7 shall be constant for the entire competition. If changes to items 1 through 3 are required, then all pilots need to be notified. Fight times and landing task shall be limited to what was provided in the contest description before the event. If more than one event is to be flown on a given day (due to weather issues for the other weekend day), both contests need to be briefed at the pilots� meeting.

ESL contests can be sanctioned by sending a request to the ESL Contest Coordinator before the start of the season (4/1). Inputs for the upcoming season are collected early, but usually the End of Season meeting is the start of the planning for the following year�s calendar. The ESL Contest Coordinator will provide the requesting organization a weekend date on the ESL calendar if it is determined that the proposed site and operational rules are adequate. If the proposed site and/or operational rules are not considered adequate, the ESL Contest Coordinator will send a written description of the contest to the ESL Officers documenting reasons for his findings. The ESL Officers shall discuss and vote on the proposed contest. If it is determined by the ESL Officers that the contest is considered adequate, a date will then be provided on the ESL calendar. A review of the contests for a given season will be conducted by the ESL Contest Coordinator at the annual End of Season meeting. Contests that are proposed to added and/or potentially dropped from the ESL calendar should be discussed at the ESL Annual meeting.

In addition, CDs are requested to replace the winch line on the ESL winches before the start of the contest. ESL members assist CDs in determining the need to replace the winch lines. After the competition is over, the scores and list of contestants with contact information needs to be forwarded to the ESL. CDs are also required to pay $2/contestant/day for every contestant to the ESL. A TBD amount may be required for DHLG and Electric Sailplane (ES) divisions. These funds go towards awards, maintaining the winches and equipment as well as other services, such as the ESL website. Entrance to the ESL is automatic upon flying any ESL contest.

The ESL instituted Expert and Sportsflyer pilot groups at the inception of the ESL. The reasoning for pilot-skill groups (as opposed to aircraft span groups) was to encourage new developing pilots to participate in the ESL and improve their skills. There is a points system developed to determine when Sportsflyer pilots need to advance to Expert class along with a highly-developed pilot advancement ritual.

ESL Procedures
In addition to the ESL rules, one of the positive actions taken by the ESL was to establish a set of ESL winches that are available for all ESL events. These winches have been maintained and continuously updated to a very high level of quality and are available to all ESL contests. Over the years, various other equipment has been added to the winches to include battery chargers, Ralston radios to find downed aircraft, 50ft lineman poles to assist in treed aircraft recoveries, spot landing tapes, power cables, etc. Contest organizers need to coordinate the transportation of the winches and equipment to their contest. However, virtually everything required to run the event is available, including manpower.

It is becoming much more of the norm than the exception to have ESL members and their families helping run the contest in a significant way. ESL members, who are not part of the local club, transport the equipment (i.e. winches, batteries, chargers, charging cables, landing tapes, PA systems, etc.) to the field, help setup the winches, run the winch lines, and keep score. This not only greatly alleviates the burden on the local club, but also provides consistency from one event to the next. The local club usually is primarily responsible for having the flying field in good shape and providing the awards. Other tasks are shared with visiting ESL members.

ESL contests usually have a relatively early start time with 9am pilot meetings and flights beginning around 9:15am. Flying at ESL contests usually continues until 4pm on Saturdays and 2pm on Sundays. Lunch breaks are usually fairly short. Generally, ESL contests have approximately 14 rounds over two days. The number of rounds can be affected by weather. But if the weather is good, there is a lot of flying.

Other elements common to ESL contests are "popoff" provisions. These provisions are included to allow contestants to have a poor launch and popoff without effectively being eliminated from the competition. Usually, Experts are allowed one popoff in the first round each day. Sportsflyers are usually allowed to have a popoff, or multiple popoffs, in any round.

The ESL�s annual meeting is held at the End of Season Contest after flying is completed on Saturday.

Summary
In summary, the ESL has created written rules and unwritten procedures that taken together provides for a series of amazing R/C soaring events each year. Through these events R/C soaring pilots are able to meet with and compete with others who share the same interest from a fairly large region. Without the ESL, many of these relationships would not be possible. ESL members provide a great deal of help facilitating these competitions and a great time is had by all. If you are new to R/C soaring, or new to the ESL region, please take the time to attend an ESL contest and experience the fun R/C soaring can be with the ESL.

ESL rules in numbered list form for convenience:

1. Initial input for the ESL schedule for the upcoming contest season is acquired at the annual ESL meeting. A draft ESL schedule shall be available for open distribution and comments by November 1st. Additions, deletions, and corrections may be made by contacting the ESL Contest Coordinator. The ESL contest schedule shall be finalized by the start of the ESL competition season (4/1).

2. Be sure to include a description of the tasks, landings, equipment, no-fly zones and anything else which could significantly affect the competition, in the contest listing on the ESL website per AMA & ESL requirements.

3. It is recommended that a contest organizer requesting to have an ESL sanctioned contest have at least one ESL member and have a representative in attendance at the ESL Meeting or send a written request to an ESL officer to request a date reserved for the next season at the ESL meeting.

4. The contest season starts on April 1st and ends the first weekend in October. (Recommended changed 2013) The ESL can extend dates as necessary when scheduling the upcoming season�s events.

5. It is highly-recommended to have the contest listed prior to the scheduled date in the AMA Competition Calendar (this requires a 90-day lead time). The detailed description of the contest shall be posted on the ESL website no later than 2-weeks prior to the event.

6. The contest must have at least three rounds for points to count toward ESL ranking.

7. The event will be conducted and awards presented in Expert and Sports Flyer classes. It is recommended that the CD consider Junior and Novice class awards if Juniors and/or Novices are registered for the event.

8. The contest must be an AMA sanctioned event. It is highly-recommended to submit the AMA contest report to the AMA.

9. It is recommended that the Contest Director (CD) has flown in 3 ESL contest days in the previous year.

10. Be sure to charge batteries as soon as receiving them to maintain them in good condition.

11. Put new winch line on the winches. Preferably 300lb test.

12. At registration, ensure that you record every contestants name, address, email, telephone number, AMA number, expert/sportsman class for the ESL scorekeeper and secretary.

13. At the pilot's meeting, please mention automatic ESL membership.

14. Note any winch problems in the winch log book or e-mail the winch issues to the ESL Officers (esl-officers@googlegroups.com).

15. Send complete scores, and each contestant's full name, address, email, telephone number, AMA number and expert/sportsman class to ESL Scorekeeper within 1 week of contest.

16. Please use e-mail or an electronic file for score information, not printouts.

17. It is required that a contest report be posted on the ESL Forums within 1 week of contest. It is recommended that a contest report be forwarded to the AMA district VP for inclusion in the AMA magazine.

18. Send $2.00 contestant/contest day sanction fee and each contestant's full name, address, email, telephone number, AMA number and expert/sportsman class to the ESL Secretary/Treasurer.


Edited by - josh_glaab on 10/31/2013 8:13:17 PM

bitzerj

4 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2013 :  9:38:22 PM  Show Profile
My feedback is from me directly, not from the SKSS club. I am not an officer of the club.

Are you saying that the NFZ is the only variable that the Contest Coordinator is going to look at when asked to sanction a contest? Reading the rules, it is the only thing listed as that can make a contest a No-Go (up to the Contest Coordinator to make the call)

Sorry, I have to ask the question...does the SKSS NFZ annoy you so much that you propose changing the rules to address it and again threaten to not sanction SKSS?

In terms of other points.... I absolutely agree the NFZ needs to be defined and enforced consistently throughout the contest.

My suggestion would be that any "unique" field rules/restrictions should be posted so folks can make a decision if they want to fly at that field. For example, fields that only allow for the winch to be setup one way...Post it, Pilots might not want to attend if there will be major crosswind launches. Let us know where the landing circles will be setup...maybe a pilot is not comfortable coming over trees and diving to the circle. Get the point???

If you are going to call out NFZ's..be fair and consistent and call out everything....

Just my 2 cents....

John

Edited by - bitzerj on 10/31/2013 9:40:13 PM
Go to Top of Page

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2013 :  8:50:51 PM  Show Profile
Hi John,

Thanks for the inputs. We are truly looking for inputs from all of the ESL members. I agree that there are a lot things that can affect a contest and different pilots like different things. I have no problem with that at all. You have to agree though, that NFZs stand unique in that they require someone watching to enforce.

Thanks for your inputs.

Josh
Go to Top of Page

jwjsailplane

22 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2013 :  11:23:27 PM  Show Profile
Josh: Great job!! I like your explanations and have revised the "rules" section to make it easier to read. As a regulatory guy much of the rules comments were more part of a "Basis and Background" document. I think that's important but, by taking the reasons for the rules out and putting them into the Intro and Background I think it would make the "rules" clearer and easier to read.
I converted the rules part into a Word document so you can see the changes I made and posted them on the Web. I don't think I really changed any of the "Rules" just took out the reasons.

John Jenks
Go to Top of Page

tbroeski

24 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2013 :  8:32:19 PM  Show Profile
It had been quite a few years since I had been to SKSS field. The NFZ has been there for as long as I have been flying. There were times when a person was posted at the road to enforce the zone. This last time it was confusing (since some said it was only over the houses, and others that it was the entire length of the road. There was no enforced penalty for those that seemed to over fly the zone consistently. It would have been worse if we had to launch that direction. There are a couple things to consider in the " notify people and let them decide" rule. What about Steve, Luis, Tony, and those that pretty much take care of winches and scoring. If they don't show, it may not be so great. Or, if they show and only a few others show, it might not be fair to them. If the field is sanctioned, then it is just something we should all be aware of. The choice of flying there will not change.

Limited launch direction is becoming almost the norm, so there can't be a comparison to that. Even a huge field like Horsefeathers has only a choice of two directions. Same with Daniel Boone.

The main consideration here is the impact of losing a contest, even with the restrictions. If the club will post a spotter and enforce the zone, then it might be a bit more acceptable (especially to those that did not cross the road, while others did it consistently). I would agree that this should be a serious consideration by the Officers in deciding sanction. The number of contests does not seem to have diminished (especially with ESL taking over the DBSF field. I know BRASS would like to host two contests per year if there were a slot. Also, we have the new addition of the Delmont club. Tough field, but fair to all.

I don't envy the officers on this one, but if NFZ's are allowed, then clear and equally enforced by a club spotter should be a firm requirement. The decision will be that of the officers with serious consideration given to the opinions of Steve, Tony,and Luis. DBSF has a recommended NFZ, but mainly because you won't get your plane back if you land there.

T

Go to Top of Page

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2013 :  8:29:14 PM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by jwjsailplane

Josh: Great job!! I like your explanations and have revised the "rules" section to make it easier to read. As a regulatory guy much of the rules comments were more part of a "Basis and Background" document. I think that's important but, by taking the reasons for the rules out and putting them into the Intro and Background I think it would make the "rules" clearer and easier to read.
I converted the rules part into a Word document so you can see the changes I made and posted them on the Web. I don't think I really changed any of the "Rules" just took out the reasons.

John Jenks



Hey John,

Thanks for working on the Rules and Procedures document. I will take a look at it. It think what you have outlined sounds like a great evolution. I wanted to provide the background for things since I think it helps make it clearer why the rules are the way they are.

Thanks again!
Josh.
Go to Top of Page

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2013 :  8:39:42 PM  Show Profile
Hi Tom,

Thanks for your inputs. I think you definitely have hit on the major points we are working with. I am looking forward to hearing from all of the ESL pilots during the next 11 months and arriving at a place that we all are Ok with and can move forward with.

Regarding limited launch direction, perhaps I am missing something, but it seems that the powerful ESL winches, and strong-light sailplanes, we seem to be kind of overpowering the elements to some limited extent. If Mom nature is reading this, I don't want 15 mph downwind launches, but it seems like crosswind, partially downwind is not as big a deal as it used to be.

Thanks, Josh.

quote:
Originally posted by tbroeski

It had been quite a few years since I had been to SKSS field. The NFZ has been there for as long as I have been flying. There were times when a person was posted at the road to enforce the zone. This last time it was confusing (since some said it was only over the houses, and others that it was the entire length of the road. There was no enforced penalty for those that seemed to over fly the zone consistently. It would have been worse if we had to launch that direction. There are a couple things to consider in the " notify people and let them decide" rule. What about Steve, Luis, Tony, and those that pretty much take care of winches and scoring. If they don't show, it may not be so great. Or, if they show and only a few others show, it might not be fair to them. If the field is sanctioned, then it is just something we should all be aware of. The choice of flying there will not change.

Limited launch direction is becoming almost the norm, so there can't be a comparison to that. Even a huge field like Horsefeathers has only a choice of two directions. Same with Daniel Boone.

The main consideration here is the impact of losing a contest, even with the restrictions. If the club will post a spotter and enforce the zone, then it might be a bit more acceptable (especially to those that did not cross the road, while others did it consistently). I would agree that this should be a serious consideration by the Officers in deciding sanction. The number of contests does not seem to have diminished (especially with ESL taking over the DBSF field. I know BRASS would like to host two contests per year if there were a slot. Also, we have the new addition of the Delmont club. Tough field, but fair to all.

I don't envy the officers on this one, but if NFZ's are allowed, then clear and equally enforced by a club spotter should be a firm requirement. The decision will be that of the officers with serious consideration given to the opinions of Steve, Tony,and Luis. DBSF has a recommended NFZ, but mainly because you won't get your plane back if you land there.

T



Go to Top of Page

John

2 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  8:42:22 PM  Show Profile
I have been burned by the "no fly" zone more than once . I was told tocome back to the field while other fliers including the cd were deeper than me. They laughed and called it "gamesmanship" when I complained. I have been a contest flyer for 25 years. A ESL cd for 15. My first responsibility as cd is safety. Second is field-club responsibility. Here in long island, we have a no landing zone. At the pilots meeting it is anounced that if you land in this area you will be asked to not to f ly for the rest of the weekend . In all the time Ive been flying it has never had to be enforced. A no fly zone is different. But of equal detriment to the field. In my opinion, it must be enforced with a spotter. The penalty for the first infraction I would recommend a 0 flight. # 2 would be a 0 day. I would volunteer to take a few rounds as a guest spotter. If all new we were serious about enforcement , I doubt you would have to deal with "gamesmanship" Of course the spotter in my case would be armed and a little bent. John Hauff
Go to Top of Page

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  9:19:58 PM  Show Profile
Hi John,

Thanks for your inputs. No landing zones (NLZs)work better than no-fly zones (NFZs) in my opinion since it is totally clear if someone has crossed the line. The LISF no-landing zone is a good example.

Thanks, Josh.


quote:
Originally posted by John

I have been burned by the "no fly" zone more than once . I was told tocome back to the field while other fliers including the cd were deeper than me. They laughed and called it "gamesmanship" when I complained. I have been a contest flyer for 25 years. A ESL cd for 15. My first responsibility as cd is safety. Second is field-club responsibility. Here in long island, we have a no landing zone. At the pilots meeting it is anounced that if you land in this area you will be asked to not to f ly for the rest of the weekend . In all the time Ive been flying it has never had to be enforced. A no fly zone is different. But of equal detriment to the field. In my opinion, it must be enforced with a spotter. The penalty for the first infraction I would recommend a 0 flight. # 2 would be a 0 day. I would volunteer to take a few rounds as a guest spotter. If all new we were serious about enforcement , I doubt you would have to deal with "gamesmanship" Of course the spotter in my case would be armed and a little bent. John Hauff

Go to Top of Page

bitzerj

4 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2013 :  9:29:15 PM  Show Profile
All,

FYI - Next year at SKSS there will be consistent enforcement of the NFZ...spotters included. One rule, applied to everyone all the time.

How do I know this...I'm not flying in the contest, I will be the NFZ enforcer with a team of spotters!

John
Go to Top of Page

ljb0001

37 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2013 :  09:44:13 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by bitzerj

All,

FYI - Next year at SKSS there will be consistent enforcement of the NFZ...spotters included. One rule, applied to everyone all the time.

How do I know this...I'm not flying in the contest, I will be the NFZ enforcer with a team of spotters!

John



John,

That's great news. Thanks for your cooperation in enforcing the NFZ. If I get a second lady to help with scoring, I volunteer to help out with the spotting. The ladies have gotten really good at pacing and scoring the contest and for some reason I cannot fathom, they prefer lovable me out of the scoring tent!

Thank you again,

Luis
Go to Top of Page

John

2 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2013 :  8:12:49 PM  Show Profile
sounds like a great plan, should prove to be another strategy to be considered at the winch. To me the more strategy to be considered at the winch, such as F3j, the more fun and challenging the contest!.......John Hauff
Go to Top of Page

josh_glaab

50 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2013 :  8:22:20 PM  Show Profile
Consistent enforcement would really help. If the road (can someone fill in here what the road's name is that sets the NFZ?) is the boundary, then having eyes at the road would be required. Multiple sets of eyes may be needed since the road is so close and we can range +/-0.5mi easily along the boundary.

Thanks, Josh.

I've heard rumors that there is lift upwind.
Go to Top of Page

stewswanson

2 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2013 :  11:13:17 PM  Show Profile
Josh- The road's name is Paper Mill Rd. (Rt. 72)
Stew
Go to Top of Page

bitzerj

4 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2013 :  6:06:56 PM  Show Profile
Google Earth is your friend

JDB

Insert Image:

Edited by - bitzerj on 11/12/2013 6:15:19 PM
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 Forum Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Eastern Soaring Talk © 2008-12 Eastern Soaring League Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000